The books we hate (and should we tell you?) and Elizabeth Gaskell vs Jane Austen.
In the first half of this episode, we talk about the books we’ve hated – prepare for things to get contentious! – and then, perhaps belatedly, debate whether or not we should keep those opinions to ourselves. In the second half (thanks to a recommendation by Rebekah), we compare two nineteenth-century classics: Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen and North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell.
You can support the podcast at Patreon (with a bunch of reward levels, including getting a book sent to you each month), visit our iTunes page, rate and review wherever you get podcasts, or just listen to the episode. Let us know which books you hate, and any suggestions you have for the podcast.
Apologies for some Skype issues we had while recording this, but hopefully you can work out what’s going on! We had to stop and start a few times in places.
The books and authors we mention in this episode are:
Crossing to Safety by Wallace Stegner
The Boat by L.P. Hartley
Alice by Elizabeth Eliot
Rachel Ferguson
Barbara Comyns
We Have Always Lived in the Castle by Shirley Jackson
The Postman Always Rings Twice by James M. Cain
The Long Weekend by Adrian Tinniswood
Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte
Twilight by Stephenie Meyer
Baltasar and Blimunda by Jose Saramago
Henry James
NW by Zadie Smith
White Teeth by Zadie Smith
On Beauty by Zadie Smith
Howards End by E.M. Forster
The Masters by C.P. Snow
Pamela Hansford Johnson
The Luminaries by Eleanor Catton
Eligible by Curtis Sittenfeld
Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
Prep by Curtis Sittenfeld
Kafka on the Shore by Haruki Murakami
Norwegian Wood by Haruki Murakami
Agatha Raisin series by M.C. Beaton
Agatha Christie
A Short History of Tractors in Ukrainian by Marina Lewycka
The Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown
The Children’s Book by A.S. Byatt
Possession by A.S. Byatt
Harry Potter series by J.K. Rowling
Margaret Drabble
Lee Child
The Sea, The Sea by Iris Murdoch
The Sandcastle by Iris Murdoch
Ivanhoe by Walter Scott
The Fountain Overflows by Rebecca West
Dear Mrs Bird by AJ Pearce
Gone to Earth by Mary Webb
North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell
Cranford by Elizabeth Gaskell
Wives and Daughters by Elizabeth Gaskell
George Eliot
Charles Dickens
The Old Curiosity Shop by Charles Dickens
Mary Barton by Elizabeth Gaskell
Blue Remembered Hills by Rosemary Sutcliff
Seasoned Timber by Dorothy Canfield Fisher
SO GLAD that Rachel shares my hatred of Wuthering Heights (definitely the Twilight of the 19th century!) and you feel the same about Henry James — The Turn of the Screw was the longest 150 page book I’ve read in my life. I have a hard time writing about books I hate when the authors are still alive, but I have no problem trashing them if they’re dead. (With the exception of Jonathan Franzen and James Frey because they seem like jerks). I guess I’m just so in awe of anyone who can actually complete a book. Pretty sure both JFs don’t care what I think.
The only Murakami I’ve ever read was Norwegian Wood which seemed like a teenage boy’s fantasy. You definitely dodged a bullet! And I also mostly dislike Jane Austen pastiches. Clueless is wonderful though, I’ve heard it’s being adapted into a musical which sounds hilarious. I also disliked Prep so there’s no way I’d read her version of a JA retelling.
And bad and weird grammar — just NO. I can see disagreeing about the use of the oxford comma (of which I’m in favor); but other it’s just annoying. Cormac McCarthy didn’t use quotation marks in All the Pretty Horses but I found it really pretentious, as if he was too superior to use proper punctuation.
I actually really liked The Children’s Book but in retrospect I absolutely see Rachel’s position — it is annoying when writers have to cram in all the history that they’ve researched. It seems so contrived.
Glad I dodged that bullet, Karen! And Turn of the Screw battles it out with Heart of Darkness for the longest short book I’ve ever read…
I’m so sorry you didn’t like Saramago…. The sentence structure you describe seems to be typical of him (it certainly is present in Death at Intervals) so if you don’t like it he’s not going to be an author for you!
As for whether to be snarky or not, I try not to be simply because I try to avoid reading books I don’t enjoy or get something from. I tend to accept/request review books I think I’ll like, though I’ll always be honest if I think there are flaws. I *do* like the occasional hatchet job, but I don’t as a rule dish them out!
It was quite reassuring to discover how hard it was to list books I’ve really hated – though it is more fun to write about those, occasionally, than the ones that are just ‘meh’.
You certainly have whetted my appetite to listen to the podcast now! I just hope that Shirley Jackson is not on your hated books list, or else we may not be able to continue this conversation…
I shan’t give it away ;) (but you don’t need to worry)
Great podcast featuring 2 very interesting topics!
I agree with you both about Withering Heights, I have never been able to understand why it is praised so much, especially the love story. I don’t think I hate it but it is definitely one of my least favorite books.
On the topic of very long sentences, have you ever tried reading Proust Simon ? I find his style absolutely beautiful and unparalleled but you need a good deal of concentration to reach the end of most of his sentences and catch their meaning.
I’ve never read The Da Vinci Code but remember very well the time when it came out and everyone was talking about it. I meant to read it but somehow never got to it because I think it would not be my cup of tea.
The book I hate most (if this makes sense) is probably Journey to the end of the Night by Louis-Ferdinand Céline: so depressing and with a horrible style. I had to read it for university and it was such an ordeal!
Hurray for audiobooks, I hope you will like the experience Rachel. I also tested them, and despite my many doubts I find them very useful and enjoyable. I loved the 2 that I have listened to so far (Pride and Prejudice read by Rosamund Pike and Anthony Trollope’s Barchester Towers read by the wonderful Timothy West, which I am just finishing).
About Pride and Prejudice and North and South, I love them both although there are a few flaws in the latter and I agree with the heaviness of some of it.
Thanks Sarah! I haven’t read Proust – though I’ve read a book ABOUT reading Proust. I’ve got the first couple of books of A la Recherche.. and I do want to read him at some point. But I’m nervous…
I agree with you about Wuthering. Heights. Got halfway through and stopped. Horrid story!
I’m always so pleased to see a new episode waiting for me when I update my listening, and this was no exception.
BUT what a spoiler about The Children’s Book. Especially for such a long book!
This reminds me of the time that someone told me who is the suitable boy in Vikram Seth’s Suitable Boy, when I was just a few hundred pages into the novel: it’s taken me about 15 years to forget which male character it turns out to be! :o
How long will it take me to forget about the deaths in this Byatt novel?! Because although I am a fervent Margaret Drabble reader and fan, I do still appreciate Byatt as well, although not at all in the same reading mood (and, obviously, I’ve taken my time getting to The Children’s Book).
Still a fan, but ouch! :)
Oh dear! I don’t remember what Rachel said, and I haven’t read the book, so I didn’t know that we’d given a big spoiler. So sorry!
Thanks so much for considering the topic that I suggested, Simon and Rachel! I loved hearing your lively discussion about Pride and Prejudice vs North and South. In retrospect, I’m wondering why I would have suggested a comparison of Pride and Prejudice, which truly is a perfect novel, with any other novel in the known universe. Silly me! :)
Since Pride and Prejudice is a perfect novel and Wuthering Heights is problematic in so many ways, I suggest that schools around the globe adjust their curriculum as follows:
(1) Delete Wuthering Heights.
(2) Add Pride and Prejudice.
It’s probably not quite that simple, but for Rachel’s sake, I hope that it may be so.
I love North and South for its compassion and depth. It’s a story about good, kind-hearted people who have prejudices against other good, kind-hearted people because they are different in some way. It’s about their growth over time, their shift in perspective as they embrace cultural differences instead of fearing them. Gaskell chose the North and South of England as a small stage for a story that is universal and timeless.
Thanks again for such a lovely, brilliant podcast. Every episode is as comforting as a cup of tea alongside a stack of well-loved books.